fandomtherapy | pretend there's a subject here

I killed a guy.

It happens!

Maybe he deserved it.

Totally deserved it.

I just wish it had accomplished what I wanted. And that my father hadn't thought it was cool that I supposedly killed someone else.

So did I. In this post. EAT IT, GAVIN.

*snorts and gets popcorn*

*throws it at you* *throws it at Gavin*

*Force pushes it back at you*

Don't do that.

Why? Gonna kill me?

*throws more for fun*

*pushes popcorn back*

Per my game's mechanics, I can and as long as I make one right decision at the end, I'll still be Light Side. So yes. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED NOT TO POKE THE WAMPA.

*Stops throwing to stare*

The... what?

The wampa. (http://www.videosift.com/video/Robot-Chickens-Star-Wars-Special-Empire-on-Ice)

*is now just laughing* Okay! Okay. NO POKING.

I've lost count.

Was it a war? Or something else?

Something else. A paycheck. A way out of the slums.

Yours?

...fair question. Not sure of the answer.

Execution? Fear? Business? I'm not sure.

He killed people for a paycheck, like you. And for fun, as recreation. Torture. Possibly cannibalism. Killed someone I tried to get away from him. Revenge? Prevention?

Maybe if I knew for sure, it wouldn't bother me so much.

Do yours bother you?

Edited 2009-07-19 03:38 (UTC)

He interfered with your life, and he hurt you, so you finished him off. Is that about it?

Is your life any better now that he's dead? I mean, do you sleep better, knowing that at least he's not out there somewhere, getting away with whatever it is he's done?

Most of mine don't bother me, no. I guess technically they should, but ... it was a job. I lived, they didn't. I wouldn't expect any of them to care if it was the other way around.

Edited 2009-07-19 03:40 (UTC)

He hurt other people. Who I couldn't save. That... bothers me. And he was going to be an ongoing threat. So yes. I do sleep better knowing he's dead. The man who replaced him is more professional, from what I could tell. Less likely to be-- gratuitous. I just wish I'd expected his replacement. I should have.

And yet. The other results showed me someone I loved in the worst light possible. And myself. I suppose I should be glad I know the truth now.

You remind me of the woman I hired to do the actual killing. Just a little. And that is a compliment, by the way. She has no regrets either. And protected her own, first.

It seems like you're less upset about killing him, and more upset that you couldn't do it sooner. But that's the sort of thing where other people gasp and say you're horrible for even thinking that, and you should have guilt for what you've done, shame on you.

I mean, if you do feel bad, that's legitimate -- it's always a bit of a shock to realize you've ended a life, at least the first time you do. I suppose what I'm meaning is, if you don't, then don't get caught in the loop of feeling bad that you don't feel bad, or wondering if it makes you a horrible person that you don't.

Are you disillusioned with someone you love? That's always painful.

And thank you. I think "my own" in this case would be the Turks. They're my family. We're loyal to each other first, and the people paying us second. The Boss might be The Boss, but he sure as hell isn't one of us.

... the big boss, that is. My immediate boss is a Turk, so the above doesn't apply to him.

More upset I couldn't stop him any other way. Which is probably ego. I thought I was smart to stop him other ways, and he kept getting out of it.

And yeah, the shock, I guess. I'd killed vampires, monsters-- hello, Fandom alumni. But it was self-defense, or defense of others, and usually they were either just stupid animals or psychos. This was different, premeditated. If I'd gotten caught, it would be life in prison or the chair in my world. I want to feel bad; I want to be normal, I suppose. I could tell my friends more about it if I felt differently. I can't explain it to them when I'm mostly only sorry it didn't change anything significant.

I'm disillusioned with my father. Who's almost my only family. He's the Boss. He wants me to be the next one.

That's it, really. I realized I was about to become The Boss. Does that make sense? I looked down the road a few years, and realized I'd start sacrificing people like you, or the only tech guy I trust, to accomplish things. Lie to someone who trusts me, or depends on me for a paycheck, set someone up, in order to get to where I needed to be. For good reasons, but still. I have no justification for that. I do not want to be The Boss. I do not want to put the fucking plan over people, and that's only a few steps past what I did, and I didn't expect it. Short-sighted of me. So I left. I have to come up with another plan before I go back there, or no one's safe

I don't think you're horrible, for what little it's worth. How could I? But yeah. The lives most kids live, in most worlds... They're protected better. Their childhoods last longer. If they were ten years older, they'd handle it better. But they aren't in the same place you are. And some may never live lives where those choices come up.

There is a huge difference between the kill-or-be-killed scenarios, fighting to protect yourself or another, and planning to take a life, and executing that plan. Although I've never been in danger from law enforcement, because the people paying me made the laws. I suppose now that that power structure is gone, someone could come after me, but most people would rather move on.

Sometimes, killing is the only way to stop someone. You could lock someone in prison for the rest of his life, but only if you have proof (if your country has a decent justice system) or a friend highly placed enough to make it happen. And prisoners escape or get paroled. One clean shot to the back of the head guarantees the person won't bother anyone ever again.

I'm also wondering if you're upset that you hired someone, instead of having the satisfaction of pulling the trigger yourself. It gives you an alibi, but people take pride in their kills.

It makes a lot of sense, to me. Reno is Tseng's second-in-command, and he's said before that he'll forgive Tseng just about anything, so long as Tseng doesn't die and leave Reno in charge. It seems like, in your case, being The Boss means sacrificing a bit of your humanity, and playing people like chess pawns, and that that's not someone you ever want to be.

Edited 2009-07-19 05:09 (UTC)

True, about justice systems. Mine would judge me guilty of conspiracy to commit murder; maybe it's the hangover of that bugging at me too. It's weird to find yourself outside the law for the first time. My victim killed seven people that I knew of; five for fun, two for work. And all the evidence burned, the witnesses disappeared, the cops got bought off, and it looked likely to keep doing so indefinitely.

I don't know that I could have killed him. Either emotionally or physically. In the crunch, he might have been better than me, smarter, faster. I'll never know now. I think I would have been able to shoot him from a distance; but I'm not sure I could have evaded the police. That feels like a kind of cowardice. I needed him dead more than I needed the satisfaction, or was willing to risk in person.

I try not to admit that I take pride in things like that, as you say. But I'm not that delusional. I almost killed the woman who killed my mother-- a hired contractor, like you-- but friends convinced me to set her up instead. She'll never stop running now. That still makes me happy. I will probably do worse if I ever find the person who gave the order.

Yes. My father would think me soft for caring about the 'pawns', but to him I'm just the 'queen' on the board anyway. Still a piece to be manipulated. I could look at people like that if I worked at it. But I would have to give up my 'Turks', the ones who stood by me for years, and now when I'm a blithering mess, to do it. And ... I don't know. I have an ideal, inherited from my mother, probably. Of who I should be. She'd be sick if I ever became The Boss. That still has a lot of power over me.

Do you think you could go back to that life, now? Not being part of the Turks, I know that hasn't changed from what you've said. But it sounds like you've gotten a wider perspective now that the power structure is gone. If another 'Boss' came up, and your Turks were expected to work for him, would you do it? Or would you look for other work, other people to be in charge? I suppose I'm asking if you'd contemplate revolt now.

Why did your victim kill? If he was just a hired gun, then ... all you've done is given his share of work to someone else. I'm not defending him -- assassins have a shorter shelf-life than most people, it's just the nature of the beast -- but I'm curious if it would have changed your response, if his motives differed.

Acknowledging that he could have beaten you: that's not cowardice, it's smart. Know your limits. People who assume they can do anything and everything are likely to end up dead. It never hurts to bring back-up, and it never hurts to call in an expert.

I take pride in my kills. Some of them were particularly clean, or hard to pull off. Most people would not want to know that. So I don't tell them.

Do you have to be The Boss to follow in his footsteps? I'd say there's a place for middle ground -- for wielding power, but not betraying your family. I don't mean your mother and father, I mean your real family.

I don't know how to answer that. The power structure we were working for almost destroyed the world. And I hated them for some of the things they'd done. When you're in the slums, you hate the rich fuckers responsible for building a city overtop of yours, and leaving you to live without the sun, without food, in a town that quickly becomes a hellhole. And when they swoop in and offer you a pile of cash to work for them, you say "yes, sir" and you sell out like that. You still hate what they stand for, you still resent them, but you will absolutely be their bitch if it means you get out.

Everything's different now. I think I'm here, on this island, to figure out who I am and what I want. I never tried that before.

His best friend, well, supposed best friend, in order to set up his foster father, erase his identity, and start a new life-- and his old life wasn't great, but he had many, many other options. Not living in a slum. Not doing it to survive. Two prostitutes, two college students, and his wife for power and sexual pleasure. Two colleagues and one employee I'm not certain of the motivations for; it could have been work, orders, or covering his tracks for the other 'hobby' murders, or fun as well. The man who's taken over his 'job' appears to confine his killings to the job, but for all I know he's just a different kind of hobbyist.

He never would have come to my attention, if it weren't for the work-related killings; but if it had been confined to that, I think I would have been ... less revolted. It would have felt less urgent. Someone who murders on orders or for power can be outwaited, or manipulated, or caught. Someone who murders for fun on a whim could add another victim to his list without warning. Every day I let him live, I felt like an accomplice in his next torture-murder. I can live with his death better than I could live with another dead, eviscerated prostitute turning up, while he smirked at me from across the office.

The expert I called in had very explicit instructions, and followed them to the letter. Confirmed guilt in the serial killings, among other things. At least I know how to get the best personnel for the job.

No, I can understand not telling them that. It's not the first time I've heard it, and I can't say I share the viewpoint, but I think I do get where it's coming from. A combination of achievement and control. The 'moral' part of the equation is trained out of you so you can accomplish a killing, and in a way that's an achievement too. Denying that, well. Pointless. But it is far more complicated than most people can imagine, and I'm guessing you started young enough that explaining it to them is a bitch and a half.

I would have to be The Boss in that place, I think. Far too many other people in competition, far too much scrutiny, far too many expectations. I would like to re-shape the Centre (the company, my legacy-to-be) into something else, with less stringent and deadly consequences, so I wouldn't have to be. I'm not sure how far up the ladder I'd have to go before I could accomplish that, or give in or leave. That's part of why I'm AWOL at the moment.

At least you're out. And yes, you sold out when the choice was live or die... but at least you didn't lie to yourself that it was only the once, only for a while, only until you could leave. You may have made past choices of you over other people, your survival and your Turks' over your targets'; but since you're not a hypocrite about it, you can look at where you are and decide if you can do something else. And if you want to. You're not delusional or in denial. I speak as someone who was at least heavily in avoidance about the guilt of my father for a good long time.

I hope you figure out what you want. I know what I want, but damn if I know how to get it. Speaking as someone who would end up offering money to kids in slums to sell out... I want another choice.

We could start a club. Some days I'm horrified I did it. Other days, I wish he'd suffered more.

I'm sure mine suffered just enough. The woman I hired was a pro. And yet. I don't know. It feels like a failure; it was my last choice. I couldn't defeat him any other way. Or wait any longer.

You?

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